Important article by Sarah Caissie Provost sheds further light on difficult topics including Scott Joplin, plus Alice Coltrane interviewed by Branford Marsalis
A favorite Mary Lou Williams recording of mine since childhood was the albums Giants, released under Dizzy’s, Bobby Hackett’s and Williams’ names (on Perception label, 1971), those 3, Grady Tate and George Duvivier. Recorded live at Overseas Press club in NYC imperfect audio and balance (horns, esp. Hackett, are often off-mike), but you can certanly hear and physically experience the great feel. Williams’ playing is so strong, driving, and alive. I remember thinking then, and now (i found a cd copy on a 2-fer on coll
This was the recording that introduced me to Williams in the '70s. I haven't heard it since, but my recollection is that her playing was percussive in a way that seemed far from the swing era period with which I might have associated her.
Thanks so much for this and for highlighting Provost’s work! I just finished teaching a Genre and Power course last semester wherein we spent quite a bit of time on Williams (mostly in regard to her Mass), but also ragtime and Joplin, so that article along with your piece here would have been essential reading! Next time. :-)
As a non-musician, I sometimes find one way into older music is to listen to an interpretation by a more contemporary musician and then go back to the earlier recording. There is a recording of The Zodiac Suite by Geri Allen w/ Buster Williams and Billy Hart that I enjoy titled “Zodiac Suite: Revisited”. Also, while the prose was dry, I learned a lot from Linda Dahl’s biography of Mary Lou Williams titled “Morning Glory”.
the Geri Allen/Mary Lou disc is interesting. I think it was done too quickly but some of the interplay with the all-star rhythm section is good. A tape has recently surfaced of Mary Lou playing with Buster and Jabali in 1973, when this was literally Herbie Hancock's rhythm section.
Really interesting piece (and thanks for that Branford/Alice video, which I'd never seen and immediately shared on Bluesky). Looking into the relationship between Mary Lou Williams and Cecil Taylor was one of the most interesting parts of researching my book; I feel like they had way more in common than most people assumed, but the fact that they were both prickly types with very strong ideas about the music they made kinda ensured that their somewhat infamous duo concert would be highly charged, to say the least. (I think it was a musical success and much less combative than some reviews suggested.)
I recall reading that one of the things that got Taylor prickly for this concert was that she picked a drummer, and it was not Andrew Cyrille who had played for both of them.
Interesting not to have any mention of Tristano. A great innovator, a marvelous musician, an innovative pedagogue. Perhaps because his pedagogical methods are now all over the academy.
I'm glad that Cecil Taylor is not on her dead-end tree. It seems that more than a few pianists have followed some of his methods.
I agree that you can't learn to swing out of a book, and as Charlie Parker said, if you haven't lived it, it won't come out of your horn. But I have to say that a couple of friends of mine, marvelous musicians, learned from great musicians of the '70s '80s, '90s who are still with us, in private lessons. Eric Rosen studied with Charles Lloyd. The late Barry Levitt, later known as Funkmeister Barry, studied with Herbie Hancock. No flies on those guys!
the dead end tree and her negative comments are not complete; I don't believe she admired Tristano. Despite making an album with him, she didn't admire Cecil Taylor either. According to the linked post from Provost: "her later lecture-recitals closed instead with 'A Fungus Amungus,' her parody of avant-garde jazz; Williams would sometimes describe this song as a parody of Cecil Taylor, whose 1966 album Unit Structures embodied the 'sickness' that she would rave against."
Thanks for sending me back down a MLW rabbit hole! I'm curious if you have thoughts as to why Joplin always included that specific note about tempos (also it seems people play ragtime fast now)? Do you always include tempo markings in your compositions, and do you think it's important to include in written music today?
I don't know what Joplin was thinking, also because we don't have any records of ragtime performance in 1901 etc. Joplin would not have attended recitals of his music or advised many others on performance practice. His scores are as unmarked as Bach's. In the realm of total speculation: I suspect many of the uninitiated would have rushed the syncopations, not just the beat.
When I write for others I include tempo markings, less so when it is just for me.
interesting article, though I have never heard a Monk version of All God's Children. Is it in existence, or is this something someone just heard him play?
Other than that opening comment I don’t think he speaks on the track. Having never heard MLW’s arrangement I always thought he was referencing the Bud Powell version while just making it all Monk of course. Perhaps Ethan can enlighten us
thanks! I am listening closely, but does he refer to her on that as having taught him the arrangement? It's an amazing performance, and is instantly a new favorite.
What a great essay. I have listened to Mary Lou Williams many times and struggle to remain engaged with the music. I often feel excluded as a member of her audience particularly in her piece Zodiac which was not referenced. I am looking forward to revisiting her larger body of work with my new perspective, particularly taking her strong Catholicism into account. I hope I can come to terms with how aloof her music sounds to me.
For me, Mary Lou is one of the masters of masters. I agree that the zodiac suite is rather esoteric. For those wishing to find a gateway into her music, I would suggest the early 78 solo piano tracks, “Night Life” and “Little Joe from Chicago.” From much later, the trio FREE SPIRITS
A favorite Mary Lou Williams recording of mine since childhood was the albums Giants, released under Dizzy’s, Bobby Hackett’s and Williams’ names (on Perception label, 1971), those 3, Grady Tate and George Duvivier. Recorded live at Overseas Press club in NYC imperfect audio and balance (horns, esp. Hackett, are often off-mike), but you can certanly hear and physically experience the great feel. Williams’ playing is so strong, driving, and alive. I remember thinking then, and now (i found a cd copy on a 2-fer on coll
I have listened to a lot of Mary Lou but this one is new to me! Thanks
This was the recording that introduced me to Williams in the '70s. I haven't heard it since, but my recollection is that her playing was percussive in a way that seemed far from the swing era period with which I might have associated her.
Magnificent! Thank you for writing this Ethan…
right on Vin!
Thanks so much for this and for highlighting Provost’s work! I just finished teaching a Genre and Power course last semester wherein we spent quite a bit of time on Williams (mostly in regard to her Mass), but also ragtime and Joplin, so that article along with your piece here would have been essential reading! Next time. :-)
Thanks very much!
As a non-musician, I sometimes find one way into older music is to listen to an interpretation by a more contemporary musician and then go back to the earlier recording. There is a recording of The Zodiac Suite by Geri Allen w/ Buster Williams and Billy Hart that I enjoy titled “Zodiac Suite: Revisited”. Also, while the prose was dry, I learned a lot from Linda Dahl’s biography of Mary Lou Williams titled “Morning Glory”.
the Geri Allen/Mary Lou disc is interesting. I think it was done too quickly but some of the interplay with the all-star rhythm section is good. A tape has recently surfaced of Mary Lou playing with Buster and Jabali in 1973, when this was literally Herbie Hancock's rhythm section.
https://youtu.be/aBNS6OIO4nc?si=JR7SNKWMojuIQivB
Thank you for that link! Amazing! She was both timeless and always contemporary.
Really interesting piece (and thanks for that Branford/Alice video, which I'd never seen and immediately shared on Bluesky). Looking into the relationship between Mary Lou Williams and Cecil Taylor was one of the most interesting parts of researching my book; I feel like they had way more in common than most people assumed, but the fact that they were both prickly types with very strong ideas about the music they made kinda ensured that their somewhat infamous duo concert would be highly charged, to say the least. (I think it was a musical success and much less combative than some reviews suggested.)
thanks Phil! For me EMBRACED is not really a musical success but I'm glad that it is there.
I recall reading that one of the things that got Taylor prickly for this concert was that she picked a drummer, and it was not Andrew Cyrille who had played for both of them.
Interesting not to have any mention of Tristano. A great innovator, a marvelous musician, an innovative pedagogue. Perhaps because his pedagogical methods are now all over the academy.
I'm glad that Cecil Taylor is not on her dead-end tree. It seems that more than a few pianists have followed some of his methods.
I agree that you can't learn to swing out of a book, and as Charlie Parker said, if you haven't lived it, it won't come out of your horn. But I have to say that a couple of friends of mine, marvelous musicians, learned from great musicians of the '70s '80s, '90s who are still with us, in private lessons. Eric Rosen studied with Charles Lloyd. The late Barry Levitt, later known as Funkmeister Barry, studied with Herbie Hancock. No flies on those guys!
the dead end tree and her negative comments are not complete; I don't believe she admired Tristano. Despite making an album with him, she didn't admire Cecil Taylor either. According to the linked post from Provost: "her later lecture-recitals closed instead with 'A Fungus Amungus,' her parody of avant-garde jazz; Williams would sometimes describe this song as a parody of Cecil Taylor, whose 1966 album Unit Structures embodied the 'sickness' that she would rave against."
Thanks for sending me back down a MLW rabbit hole! I'm curious if you have thoughts as to why Joplin always included that specific note about tempos (also it seems people play ragtime fast now)? Do you always include tempo markings in your compositions, and do you think it's important to include in written music today?
I don't know what Joplin was thinking, also because we don't have any records of ragtime performance in 1901 etc. Joplin would not have attended recitals of his music or advised many others on performance practice. His scores are as unmarked as Bach's. In the realm of total speculation: I suspect many of the uninitiated would have rushed the syncopations, not just the beat.
When I write for others I include tempo markings, less so when it is just for me.
interesting article, though I have never heard a Monk version of All God's Children. Is it in existence, or is this something someone just heard him play?
Other than that opening comment I don’t think he speaks on the track. Having never heard MLW’s arrangement I always thought he was referencing the Bud Powell version while just making it all Monk of course. Perhaps Ethan can enlighten us
https://youtu.be/rG_r6LKFRZs?si=WNnj9TP9sIfwbX6m
thanks! I am listening closely, but does he refer to her on that as having taught him the arrangement? It's an amazing performance, and is instantly a new favorite.
the source for the MLW attribution is the Robin DG Kelley bio (I am 98% positive, my books are in storage)
What a great essay. I have listened to Mary Lou Williams many times and struggle to remain engaged with the music. I often feel excluded as a member of her audience particularly in her piece Zodiac which was not referenced. I am looking forward to revisiting her larger body of work with my new perspective, particularly taking her strong Catholicism into account. I hope I can come to terms with how aloof her music sounds to me.
For me, Mary Lou is one of the masters of masters. I agree that the zodiac suite is rather esoteric. For those wishing to find a gateway into her music, I would suggest the early 78 solo piano tracks, “Night Life” and “Little Joe from Chicago.” From much later, the trio FREE SPIRITS
2-fer on Collectibe jazz classics (col-5626) with Dizzy’s Portrait of Jenny) us “man, she can PLAY”.
Giants, along with some of the verve Bud Powell trio sessions, made me love George Duvivier’s playing, such positive swing, sound, vibe!