Sad to hear of John McNeill's passing. A few years ago, Allegra Levy put out an album of her lyrics set to McNeill's music, 'Lose My Number,' and it's absolutely brilliant.
I put in a request for the set so I can get a review up on Classical Candor expeditiously. Especially looking forward to the clarinet sonata: Ooooohhh, I'm a fool for a clarinet...
Thank you for the reminder about Walter Smith III, Jason Moran, Eric Harland, and Reuben Rogers playing this week at the Village Vanguard. Must stop in. The Vanguard and the community of performers-composers who play there are an exemplar of #durableexcellence . Ethan, your use of the term #collectivemusic is apt for what is trying to happen in the 5 boroughs. Last night, I had the honor and privilege of experiencing the first night of Matt Mitchell's sixth residency at The Stone-- (L to R) Matt, Tim Berne, and Kate Gentile. Extraordinary. The rapid evolution of #collectivemusic extends beyond the five boroughs, as you know. As Graham Haynes observed astutely, not everything starts in nyc yet everything comes through. Just wish my pensioner's budget didn't mean a trade-off between paying artists and living within my means. Social Security is neither. It's different elsewhere.
For my money, there's no richer source for crime fiction insight than what you've posted so generously over the years. Thank you! Any recent discoveries you'd care to share?
thanks so much Jerry! I just re-read a bunch of Len Deighton. The early 80s GAME, SET, and MATCH trilogy is just fantastic. Now am restarting his early 60s quartet with chapter one of THE IPCRESS FILE. For the first time I am noting how he actually became a better writer with practice.
Curious what you thought of the Rex in Toronto. I feel like when they started booking jazz, it was just another place to play, but many years later it's the cornerstone of a whole scene.
Toronto definitely seems like a cool scene. I went to the Rex last January when I was in town and saw a local group, Mike DeiCont's Northern Danger, playing a set of all-original music. Phenomenal. Made me want to go hang out in Toronto for a couple of weeks.
A while back you posted about the "Hub of Hubbard", and Hub's remarkable ability drive a band that is almost falling over.
What do you reckon is going on with this record? Davis and Hayes are certainly no slouches, but to my ear they just aren't in the pocket most of the time. Could some unhelpful substances have been imbibed? A rough day perhaps? Or am i missing something about the music? Any insights appreciated.
Very interesting point to discuss. I love Richard Davis, but at times his beat is quite surreal. That record is a notable example. Louis Hayes also plays fairly tight pattern. Richard Davis in that mood might work better with Elvin Jones or Mel Lewis.
Did you compose your sonatas "vertically" or "horizontally"? Vertically: planning a lot in advance and then filling out the gaps. Horizontally: just start out and continue organizing the improvisation measure by measure. Almost the same question: "did you plan anything else than the form and the instruments?" And did you do a lot of feedback loops? (Monk did a lot because he tried out his tunes over and over.) Thanks for the music and the scrolling scores, they are very interesting.
There were no feedback loops although if a tune gets stuck in your head, it's a good tune. ("Music Hall" here is definitely catchy -- if a composer is permitted to say that about their own music lol.) For me, the nice thing about Sonata form is how the big structural container is there. So that means "vertical" in your equation. (Even "Music Hall," while not a full sonata-allegro form, gestures in that direction in the manner of many smaller Mozart or Beethoven movements.) However, there's always a lot of "huh, what happens next?" as well, which would be the improvisatory "horizontal" part of what you talking about. Probably everything I do in any context or form has some of both.
Thanks again for the recs and just wanted to pay my respects for the great John McNeil. Heavy presence and gargantuan spirit with a phenomenal sense of humor (who else could title a song, "A World Without Velcro"). When I was a teenager in the 90s was fortunate to have him as a teacher for 2 weeks or so at a Jazz camp in Colorado. I remember he taught us "Isfahan" and "Countdown" (right on) and that he was the only faculty member who sat through the entire 6 hour student concert day. A prime exponent of authentic self and perhaps the quintessential New York Jazz musician? Have listened to Chill Morn he climb Jenny and Rediscovery most over the years, can't wait to check out Look to the Sky.
A few years after the camp when I was in college in NYC and handed in an indecipherable attempt at atonality for a semester big band chart, Mcneil's longtime partner Lolly was playing trombone in the reading band. She asked me afterwards point blank, "What's wrong with your head?".. A fair question at the time and still helpful now and then.
Man did I learn a lot from John McNeil—for better or for worse there's been sort of a tradition in jazz of "secret knowledge"—some things were just not for the uninitiated and you had to be taken into confidence by an elder or figure them out on your own. McNeil was very much NOT about that approach—he would just show you how things worked! And so in my very first lesson with him he gave me information that I was able to work on for the next decade and beyond—because he also helped me realize how unspecific and undisciplined my own musical thinking was at the time, largely because I was afraid to admit to myself how little I REALLY had under my belt. This led to cultivating something that turned out to be very important—the ability to very dispassionately, but clear-headedly, evaluate whether I really played something the way I meant to, and if not, to try it again. And of course his legendary humor made that extremely serious process fun.
Hi Ethan from London town. Great Pete Bernstein gig the other week with Sullivan Fortner. Jeez, he’s good. Btw, are you familiar with Federico Mompou’s piano music. Think you’d love it.
I love the tuba, but I can’t say I know all the ins and outs of the repertoire. I wrote a post about Max Roach and including Ray Draper. Brass band music is phenomenal. Of course Gil Evans was a master of including tuba.
I know that the tuba has a long history in jazz, but my tuba composer will always be Henry Threadgill. It's hard for me to imagine a lot of his music with a different instrument down there.
Hi Ethan, would you be open to sharing your transcription of McCoy's "Surrey with the Fringe on Top" I've been working on it myself and I'd like to compare notes. Thanks! max.bessesen@gmail..com
Sad to hear of John McNeill's passing. A few years ago, Allegra Levy put out an album of her lyrics set to McNeill's music, 'Lose My Number,' and it's absolutely brilliant.
new to me, thanks!
Will there be a physical CD release of "Play fair Sonatas" or will it be digital only?
There will be a very nice looking two-CD set with liner notes!
I put in a request for the set so I can get a review up on Classical Candor expeditiously. Especially looking forward to the clarinet sonata: Ooooohhh, I'm a fool for a clarinet...
Karl write me separately if you are not serviced. Thank you so much for your support.
Thank you for the reminder about Walter Smith III, Jason Moran, Eric Harland, and Reuben Rogers playing this week at the Village Vanguard. Must stop in. The Vanguard and the community of performers-composers who play there are an exemplar of #durableexcellence . Ethan, your use of the term #collectivemusic is apt for what is trying to happen in the 5 boroughs. Last night, I had the honor and privilege of experiencing the first night of Matt Mitchell's sixth residency at The Stone-- (L to R) Matt, Tim Berne, and Kate Gentile. Extraordinary. The rapid evolution of #collectivemusic extends beyond the five boroughs, as you know. As Graham Haynes observed astutely, not everything starts in nyc yet everything comes through. Just wish my pensioner's budget didn't mean a trade-off between paying artists and living within my means. Social Security is neither. It's different elsewhere.
Thanks Ryn!
Walter Smith III et al. is SOLD OUT -- early and late sets all the way through Sunday.
I snooze. I lose.
For my money, there's no richer source for crime fiction insight than what you've posted so generously over the years. Thank you! Any recent discoveries you'd care to share?
thanks so much Jerry! I just re-read a bunch of Len Deighton. The early 80s GAME, SET, and MATCH trilogy is just fantastic. Now am restarting his early 60s quartet with chapter one of THE IPCRESS FILE. For the first time I am noting how he actually became a better writer with practice.
Curious what you thought of the Rex in Toronto. I feel like when they started booking jazz, it was just another place to play, but many years later it's the cornerstone of a whole scene.
I can’t speak for the scene, but I loved playing the Rex! If there was a Rex in every town, the jazz touring life would be much healthier.
Toronto definitely seems like a cool scene. I went to the Rex last January when I was in town and saw a local group, Mike DeiCont's Northern Danger, playing a set of all-original music. Phenomenal. Made me want to go hang out in Toronto for a couple of weeks.
great!
Hello Ethan,
A while back you posted about the "Hub of Hubbard", and Hub's remarkable ability drive a band that is almost falling over.
What do you reckon is going on with this record? Davis and Hayes are certainly no slouches, but to my ear they just aren't in the pocket most of the time. Could some unhelpful substances have been imbibed? A rough day perhaps? Or am i missing something about the music? Any insights appreciated.
Very interesting point to discuss. I love Richard Davis, but at times his beat is quite surreal. That record is a notable example. Louis Hayes also plays fairly tight pattern. Richard Davis in that mood might work better with Elvin Jones or Mel Lewis.
Did you compose your sonatas "vertically" or "horizontally"? Vertically: planning a lot in advance and then filling out the gaps. Horizontally: just start out and continue organizing the improvisation measure by measure. Almost the same question: "did you plan anything else than the form and the instruments?" And did you do a lot of feedback loops? (Monk did a lot because he tried out his tunes over and over.) Thanks for the music and the scrolling scores, they are very interesting.
There were no feedback loops although if a tune gets stuck in your head, it's a good tune. ("Music Hall" here is definitely catchy -- if a composer is permitted to say that about their own music lol.) For me, the nice thing about Sonata form is how the big structural container is there. So that means "vertical" in your equation. (Even "Music Hall," while not a full sonata-allegro form, gestures in that direction in the manner of many smaller Mozart or Beethoven movements.) However, there's always a lot of "huh, what happens next?" as well, which would be the improvisatory "horizontal" part of what you talking about. Probably everything I do in any context or form has some of both.
To channel Eno on VU…Not many watched MR INBETWEEN, but everybody who saw it bought a Spetsnatz tactical trench shovel. (Only $29 on AMZN :-)
LOVE this comment!
Thanks again for the recs and just wanted to pay my respects for the great John McNeil. Heavy presence and gargantuan spirit with a phenomenal sense of humor (who else could title a song, "A World Without Velcro"). When I was a teenager in the 90s was fortunate to have him as a teacher for 2 weeks or so at a Jazz camp in Colorado. I remember he taught us "Isfahan" and "Countdown" (right on) and that he was the only faculty member who sat through the entire 6 hour student concert day. A prime exponent of authentic self and perhaps the quintessential New York Jazz musician? Have listened to Chill Morn he climb Jenny and Rediscovery most over the years, can't wait to check out Look to the Sky.
A few years after the camp when I was in college in NYC and handed in an indecipherable attempt at atonality for a semester big band chart, Mcneil's longtime partner Lolly was playing trombone in the reading band. She asked me afterwards point blank, "What's wrong with your head?".. A fair question at the time and still helpful now and then.
nice stories, thanks!
Man did I learn a lot from John McNeil—for better or for worse there's been sort of a tradition in jazz of "secret knowledge"—some things were just not for the uninitiated and you had to be taken into confidence by an elder or figure them out on your own. McNeil was very much NOT about that approach—he would just show you how things worked! And so in my very first lesson with him he gave me information that I was able to work on for the next decade and beyond—because he also helped me realize how unspecific and undisciplined my own musical thinking was at the time, largely because I was afraid to admit to myself how little I REALLY had under my belt. This led to cultivating something that turned out to be very important—the ability to very dispassionately, but clear-headedly, evaluate whether I really played something the way I meant to, and if not, to try it again. And of course his legendary humor made that extremely serious process fun.
thanks so much for comment
Hi Ethan from London town. Great Pete Bernstein gig the other week with Sullivan Fortner. Jeez, he’s good. Btw, are you familiar with Federico Mompou’s piano music. Think you’d love it.
Love Sullivan, and dig Mompou as well. Richie Beirach is also a big Mompou fan.
A lot of the pieces lend themselves to the jazz idiom. I’ve also heard Pablo Held wax lyrical in an interview with Larry G.
Let us know when you’re next in london.👍
Good to see your write up of “Mr in between “ an excellent show that deserves wider recognition
Yes, I really am impressed with the show
Walter Smith 3 is a force to be reckoned with as both a player and a humorist. I’m going to look into John McNeill.
Yes! John was also incredibly funny. I tried to write an anecdote, but I didn’t think it translated without his phenomenal deadpan delivery.
My two favorite pianists - Ethan Iverson, and Jason Moran!
you are TOO kind -- thank you
What’s your opinion of the tuba in both a big-band arrangement or as a horn in a non-Dixieland setting?
I love the tuba, but I can’t say I know all the ins and outs of the repertoire. I wrote a post about Max Roach and including Ray Draper. Brass band music is phenomenal. Of course Gil Evans was a master of including tuba.
I know that the tuba has a long history in jazz, but my tuba composer will always be Henry Threadgill. It's hard for me to imagine a lot of his music with a different instrument down there.
Great point
Hi Ethan, would you be open to sharing your transcription of McCoy's "Surrey with the Fringe on Top" I've been working on it myself and I'd like to compare notes. Thanks! max.bessesen@gmail..com
ok just sent